Police shooting innocent civilians

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Tom C
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Police shooting innocent civilians

And the beat goes on....

The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department admitted Thursday to fatally shooting an innocent victim of a knife attack whom they mistook for a suspect.

Christopher Roupe, 17, of Euharlee was felled by a single police bullet when an unidentified officer arrived at the family mobile home to execute a probation violation warrant against his father, authorities said.

The evolving narrative... First the police claimed the victim "lunged at offficers". They that changed to he "aggressed" the officers. Then when it turned out they shot the wrong guy, they sais the while he was escaping the hostage situation he "lunged at" the other victim.

Sounds like this guy didn't stand a chance.

Anyway, the cops shot 2 of the hostages, including killing one, and a thrd hostage was stabbed by the perp. The only guy that emerged apparently unscathed was the hostage-taker.

---------------------------------

Elsewhere:

“It just doesn't add up,” family attorney Cole Law told WSBTV. “He heard a knock at the door. He asked who it was, there was no response so he opened the door and upon opening the door he was immediately shot in the chest.”

Georgia teen holding Wii remote shot by cops at his front door: family lawyer

At first the police story was he "pointed a handgun at the officer". Then it was he "answered the door with a BB gun."

Now the lawyer says all he had in his hand was w Wii controller.

Oddly, from what seems to have happened here, the lawyer's story makes the most sense.

thejohnchapman
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Here's a Wii remote:

Here's a Wii remote:

No orange muzzle on this one.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Realistic+Wii+Guns&Form=IQFRDR#view=...

I don't claim to have any particular knowledge about the facts here. All I know is that some Wii controllers look like guns. I thought that might be the case from the way the hand was holding the controller in the article.

Tom C
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Perhaps that controller

Perhaps that controller should have a warning on it.

Well, the bottom line is that an (1) innocent civilian (2) with no evil intent (3) conducting a lawful activity (4) in his own home - was killed by a nervous cop.

Anyway, just my opinion, but I think the cops should take some responsibility here.

I guess this is not the first time this officer has blasted away at unarmed citizens:

In 2008, she fired her gun at a suspect who was trying to open his backpack because she thought he was armed. The suspect was not armed, and her partner said there was no reason to think otherwise.

Well, let's not jump to any conclusions. In that case the guy was unarmed, her partner said there was no reason to shoot - but let's "wait for the investigation".

An investigation disagreed with the partner and found Gatny innocent.

Unbelievable: Cop who wrongly killed teen had history of blunders, was fired from last job as cop

Aww - surprise! Who could have seen THAT coming! When does an investigation ever find in favor of the cop?!

--------------------------

You know what also looks like a gun? A cane.

Dashcam video shows deputy weeping after shooting 70-year-old man during traffic stop because he thought cane was a gun

This old guy obviously grew up in a time when you could have a friendly chat with an officer, back when an officer's job was to make the public feel safe.

He doesn't understand that things are the opposite now - instead, nowadays it's the citizen's job to make sure the officer feels safe.

thejohnchapman
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Tom, the "bottom line" is

Tom, the "bottom line" is that you have less idea what went on in these cases than in the Popkowski case. Me too. The difference is that I admit it. I'd need more information than the current media offers to pass judgment. You only need to know that a cop is involved and that someone other than you blames him.

Tom C
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No, I'm pretty selective

No, I'm pretty selective about the cases I describe.

TMacKenzie
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So selective that your first

So selective that your first post appears to suggest that a member of the Los Angeles police force shot a teenager in Georgia? And that there was hostage taking involved??? Fairly confusing, that.

Tom C
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It's two separate incidents,

It's two separate incidents, TMK. I even clarified it with an "Elsewhere:". I find no such suggestion as you describe.

TMacKenzie
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You might want to clarify

You might want to clarify/reorganize your original post to better make your point and make it easier for the reader to follow.

Tom C
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Perhaps I should hire an

Perhaps I should hire an editor!

TMacKenzie
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Not me, fer sure. I am

Not me, fer sure. I am "paragraph challenged". . .

Tom C
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We are getting information

We are getting information that he is a pizza deliveryman, so it is a possibility he may have thought he was being robbed. We do know the police officers announced themselves as police officers, he may not have heard that

Misunderstanding May Have Led To Police-Involved Shooting

Hey, Pizza Delivery workers have one of the deadlest jobs in America - they are included in number 8:

1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers

America's 10 Deadliest Jobs

You'll notice "Police Officer" is not there at all.

Rebecca
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The current media would

The current media would report such things this way:

Seventy-two killed resisting gun confiscation in Boston
by Author Unknown
7:00am Monday, April 21, 2014

Boston – National Guard units seeking to confiscate a cache of recently banned assault weapons were ambushed on April 19 by elements of a para-military extremist faction. Military and law enforcement sources estimate that 72 were killed and more than 200 injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.

Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared that the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has links to the radical right-wing tax protest movement.

Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed against internal revenue offices. The governor, who described the group's organizers as "criminals," issued an executive order authorizing the summary arrest of any individual who has interfered with the government's efforts to secure law and order.

The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed wide-spread refusal by the local citizenry to turn over recently outlawed assault weapons. Gage issued a ban on military-style assault weapons and ammunition earlier in the week. This decision followed a meeting in early this month between government and military leaders at which the governor authorized the forcible confiscation of illegal arms.

One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out that "none of these people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed the law and turned over their weapons voluntarily."

Government troops initially succeeded in confiscating a large supply of outlawed weapons and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize arms and ammunition in Lexington met with resistance from heavily-armed extremists who had been tipped off regarding the government's plans.

During a tense standoff in the Lexington town park, National Guard Colonel Francis Smith, commander of the government operation, ordered the armed group to surrender and return to their homes. The impasse was broken by a single shot, which was reportedly fired by one of the right-wing extremists.

Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange.

Ironically, the local citizenry blamed government forces rather than the extremists for the civilian deaths. Before order could be restored, armed citizens from surrounding areas had descended upon the guard units. Colonel Smith, finding his forces over matched by the armed mob, ordered a retreat.

Governor Gage has called upon citizens to support the state/national joint task force in its effort to restore law and order. The governor also demanded the surrender of those responsible for planning and leading the attack against the government troops.

Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and John Hancock, who have been identified as "ringleaders" of the extremist faction, remain at large.

And this, fellow Americans, is how the American Revolution began, in April, 1775.

On July 4th, 1776 these same extremists signed the Declaration of Independence, pledging to each other and their countrymen their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor. Many of them lost everything, including their families and their lives over the course of the next few years.

Lest we forget!!

Tom C
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Channel 2 Action News has

Channel 2 Action News has learned that a grand jury has found that a Euharlee police officer was not authorized to shoot a 17-year-old while responding to a call in February.

Grand jury: Officer used unauthorized force in deadly shooting of teen

You only need to know that a cop is involved and that someone other than you blames him.

Hmmm... The "other than [me]s" are starting to pile up in this case.

Tom C
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Albuquerque PD is having

Albuquerque PD is having more than its share of shootings - and scrutiny.

Recently a 19 year-old woman was shot after a police chase - the office claims that the woman pulled a gun on him or her.

Fortunately, to dispel growing public suspicion, officers have been equiped with lapel cameras.

So the video should tell the story!

Albuquerque Police Yet to Find Video of Shooting

Oops. They "lost" it.

Rebecca
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One can only wonder if the

One can only wonder if the firearm in question was one of those throwaway guns that some police find to have need of from time to time. Especially since the video seems to be "unavailable".

Tom C
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More brave action by boys in

More brave action by boys in blue:

The ordeal lasted for more than an hour. The authorities said they had a report of two people casing cars in the parking lot that would have been Alice, 65, and her 8-year-old grandson Aaron looking at license plates.

Ohio family held at gunpoint by police at Dayton Air Force Museum

“I never in my life thought somebody would pull a gun on me, especially a cop,” said Alice Hill, a grandmother of seven who lives near Circleville.

Air Force apologizes to family after traffic stop

Well, get used to the idea, lady.

Base officials have since apologized to the family.

“We sincerely regret the fact that their enjoyable day at the museum ended with this high-risk traffic stop,” their statement read.

"High risk"? To the citizen, it was.

Initial reports indicated the van had been reported stolen

I'm not buying it. More likely the called in a wrong number or the wrong state. This looks like a screw-up all the way around.

Tom C
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Citizen's sick of police

Citizens sick of police arrogance:

Sheriff's Deputy who shot a dog after responding to a burglary call on Friday has been fired.

According to the Rains County Sheriff's Office, Deputy Jerrod Dooley was fired on Thursday. Sheriff David Traylor said that it was for Dooley's safety because of threats. He added that it is the safest move for the department and the deputy.

Deputy Who Shot Victim's Dog Terminated

Rebecca
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And the correct response by

And the correct response by the sheriff. I am sick and tired of these so called reviews where time drags on and the outcome of the review is always the same. "the officer acted within his training and standard operating procedures".

ANY use of a firearm where the officer cannot easily prove self defense should immediately require the officer to be relieved of his duties and his firearm. The review should be accomplished by a grand jury of people who do not live anywhere near the officer or his workplace and their names should remain concealed from the police. Anyone who sits on a grand jury should not fear retribution to themselves or their families, by the police for any reason.

Tom C
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Several high-profile

Wisconsin made history Wednesday, becoming the first state in the nation to require an independent review of all police officer-involved deaths.

Several high-profile incidents sparked an outcry from the families of loved ones who died at the hands of police.

The most controversial came on November 9th, 2012, when Madison Police Officer Stephen Heimsness shot and killed 30 year-old Paul Heenan on the city's east side.

Heenan's parents joined family members of other victims at the Capitol to celebrate the bill's signing.

UPDATE: Gov. Walker signs bill setting up independent review of officer-involved deaths

This was unusual - families of individuals killed by police rallied at the Wisconsin State House to support an independent police oversight bill.

I didn't understand the statement "first in the nation to require an outside investigation", I don't think that statement is correct as it stands, but I wonder if the union-taming sentiment of the present Wisconsin state government permitted the passage of a police-oversight law. Much of the police questionable behavior occurred in Madison, and a review of areas in the country that seem to show police impervious to discipline seem to be in strong union areas.

I also question whther the review should be conducted by a different law enforcement agency - if the problem is policy-related, then one police department is likely to corroborate another agency's policies - when the problem might be the policy itself. For example - if an officer kills an innocent civilian while "following policy", gee, there might be something wrong with the policy.

Bruce Libby
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Gee isn't he one of those

Gee isn't he one of those much talked about Gov. heroes ?

Tom C wold you post Wis. use of force statute for LEO's .
It would venice to see what he review will have to work with .

Tom C
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I don't think the issue is

I don't think the issue is the law, it's the police mentality, and cover-ups that are the problem. Police know which verses to recite to protect themselves from prosecution, and provocative buzzwords: "reached for the gun", "lunged at the officer", "attempted to drive over the officer", (which, first of all, are by their nature, actually SUBjective observations,) sound convincing, and they create an emotional reaction in the listener which ends debate on the facts of the issue.

However, often we see that when video of one of these incidents emerges, it becomes hard to reconcile the officer's statements to the video of the event.

The corrosive mentality is a bigger problem:

This is a quote from David Cooper, who was the Chief of the Madison Police Department in the 1970s:

In my new book, I noted that restricting the use of deadly force by my officers created conflict within the department. But, at the same time, gathered respect for police in the community. It was a matter of short-term versus long-term thinking:

“One morning in the mid-1970s, I remember attending a briefing of senior day-shift officers, most all of whom were males older than I was. A number of them soon began complaining about the changes going on within the department—hiring women, new policies that restricted the use of deadly force and the requirement that a supervisor call off high-speed chases if they became too dangerous to the community.

“I listened as the grousing continued. Then I asked them, ‘When I came to the department, many of your wives told me they were embarrassed to say their husbands were police officers. They shared with me that those days of riot and turmoil took a toll on them and your children, as well. Now looking back, think — is that the case now? Or are your wives and children proud that you are a Madison police officer?’ It was quiet in the room. I had made a point. These senior officers knew they had gained respect under my leadership. Everyone had benefited from our effort to professionalize—to be a first class police department. They knew they were now viewed as respected professionals in the community”

Arrested Development: A Veteran Police Chief Sounds Off About Protest, Racism, Corruption, and the Seven Steps Necessary to Improve Our Nation's Police

Tom C
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It's all fun and games until

It's all fun and games until the video shows up:

The report said Dotson ignored 'repeated instructions' to go inside and apparently 'began to physically resist officers' instructions to place his hands behind his back, and at one point grabbed on to an officer's leg.'

Tennessee sheriff's deputy is FIRED after he was caught on camera choking an unresisting college student until he passed out

Tom C
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It's all fun and games until

It's all fun and games until the video shows up:

According to a press release, the officers open fire after seeing the suspect reach into his waist band. After reviewing cell phone footage, some experts believe that the suspect did not reach into his waist band and that the use of force was unjustified.

Police View "Obstructed" When Officers Opened Fire on Suspect in Long Beach

The police admit they have an "obstructed view", but then saw the suspect "reach for his waist." Perhaps it's two different viewpoints, and therefore not conflicting, but the blantent "reaching for the waistband" lie seems to be egregious.

As more and more of these incidents emerge, it's hard not to get a picture of an America police force that would lie about a shooting, and therefore who would trust them to be honest about a traffic ticket? I've observed officers engage in casual shading of the truth - adding a few miles an hour ONTO the speed they claim they observed - probably just to make it easier if the ticket is contested.

If they can't be trusted about little things, what citizen is going to want to trust their lives and safety to them?

I think those who complain about an arrogant police force might also look at this long pattern of demonstrated lies, some of which have been pointed out in this thread, and others, and be concerned about a growing corruption of the same police force, and how the self-serving "us vs. them" mentality it is working into the very culture of the profession to the severe determent of the public they purport to serve.

Rebecca
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Good guy (not a cop) with a

Good guy (not a cop) with a gun didn't kill anyone.
But the crooks went to jail and the victim lives another day.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/29/two-suspects-who-dragged-mom-...

Rebecca
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Just as an update:

Just as an update:

Deputy shoots farm dog in the back of the head ...
.
... gets fired. Good:

A sheriff's deputy in northeast Texas has been fired for shooting a farmer's dog through the back of the head in an incident that touched off condemnation around the world.

He claimed the dog was 'charging' him.

personal: I'll bet he was some scared.
The dog was an Australian cattle dog, long-used by ranchers of all kinds to help control animals

Tom C
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Amazing - the dog was

Amazing - the dog was charging him - and he shot the magic "boomerang bullet" that came back and hit the dog in the BACK of the head.

Nope, no question about the credibility of THAT report.

------------------------------

Anyway, make a mistake and shoot a civilian - then throw the book that the poor guy!

Police said they mistook Ford for another suspect and thought he was armed, and an officer shot Ford as he drove away from the scene, according to media reports.

Local rally to support man shot by Pittsburgh police

"As he drove away?" Here's the video -

Notice that he drove away AFTER the police started shooting. But who are you going to believe - the offical police report - or your lying eyes?

And what was the police response to him not letting them continue to pump bullets into him?

Ford faces charges of aggravated assault, reckless endangerment and resisting arrest that his family said could put him in prison for 20 years. The investigation into the police officers’ actions is ongoing, but Pittsburgh police have said the officer used force in self-defense.

Hmmm - wrong guy, unarmed, but it was "self-defense". I don't think so. I think it was an incompentant police action, aggrevated by poor choice and a cover-up. No real danger to defend against, other than in the officer's hyped-up, hair-trigger mind.

But that's just my opinion, here. You can have you own opinion.

Of couse, we could wait for the "investigation." I'm sure we can rely on that!

Now - Follow police commands - even if they are shooting you! Do NOT resist!

Die like a man!

johnw
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Hmmmm I wonder will it

Hmmmm I wonder will it eventually devolve to a point where the only safe response to a police officer showing up on your property is to immediately throw open the front door and lay face down with your feet pointed towards the door and your hands clasped firmly behind your head until the "peace officer" tells you it okay to move...
Especially if they roll in in one of their newly acquired armored assault vehicles and jump out replete in body armor, dark glasses, their pants tucked into their combat boots.... and a semi automatic assault rifle in hand....... "But officer I only called because my kitten wouldn't come down...."

Tom C
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But if any police department

But if any police department were to take the cake, it would definitely be the NYPD — which had no less than three different officers getting drunk and shooting people in one week.

What 3 NYPD Officers Did This Week Takes Police Brutality to an Entirely New Level

Amazing!

johnw
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Who knows how many shootings

Who knows how many shootings , assaults , and other crimes are committed in the name of law enforcement. I believe there are some great police officers out there who take their duties seriously, the problem is is when they close ranks to protect the bad ones....I also believe that there's many who are peeled off the Bad Lieutenant template (Gary Oldmam).

Tom C
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He’s been dead for eight

He’s been dead for eight years, but try telling that to the NYPD.

Cops have barged into James Jordan Sr.’s family home looking for him more than a dozen times since he died in 2006 — prompting his exasperated relatives to finally post his death certificate on the front door.

‘Ghostbuster’ cops keep raiding dead man’s home: suit

Not wanting to waste the trip, once there, they terrorize the citizens, and even have arrested the dead man's son, who is a "junior".

The city’s Law Department declined to comment.

Why should they? They're not accountable to mere smelly citizens. They are in a class above all that.

Dale Tudor
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It has been eight years since

It has been eight years since the guy in question died. The house has been raided at least a dozen times...more than once a year. Since these raiding teams of police are usually from the same precinct or group of precincts, it would seem reasonable that at least one of the officers would say, "Hey, I've been here before. That guy is already dead."

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