Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

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hatchcar
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

As I sat watching the latest Republican presidential debate in my living room last week, I was certain I had heard the arguements being made by the leading Republican candidates on Iraq before. Then it dawned on me; I had heard almost exactly the same words three years ago. Those same arguements had come out of the mouths of John Kerry, John Edwards and Hillary Clinton during the 2004 election campaign.
My memory turned out to be correct as I reread transcripts of the 2004 election debates. John Kerry and John Edwards made almost exactly the same arguements being made by Giuliani, Romney and McCain during the Presidential debates this year.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/eddlem/eddlem17.html

Michelle Anderson
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

The major difference between the Democrats and the Republicans at this time seems to be what comes after their name in parenthesis. I prefer a (3) to a (D) or (R).

Editor
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

hatchcar -

I'll repeat a question I asked on another thread. How is Ron Paul's position on U.S. involvement in Iraq different than the Democrats?

skf

hatchcar
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Scott, depends on which Democrats you are speaking about. He agrees with Gravel of removing the troops ASAP. Kucinich would redeploy if my memory serves me right, and the others have so flipped flopped, I honestly can't tell where they stand.

I would also mention that Dr. Paul has warned since 1998, the year the Iraq Liberation Act was passed, that indeed, we were going to war again there. I would argue, as the article points out, it's Ron Paul who has argued this was a mistake, and the others have followed his lead.
Hope this answers your question. If not, I need to research more on the other contenders.

@Matt_McDonald_
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

While Dr. Paul's answer to the Iraq War may sound similar to what the Dems say, I believe that the important issue to take notice in is what led Dr. Paul to his answer. While most Dems argue against the war because of a hatred of President Bush and and his polices, Dr. Paul's beliefs are grounded in the Constitution and law. His argument is not based out of emotions and feelings; he builds his argument with the foundation of the writings and documents of our forefathers which are the cornerstone of our Nation.

So I don't think the focus should be on how his Iraq War policy is similar to that of some of the Democrats, but should be on what is the substance of his policy.

hatchcar
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

Guy, point well taken, and I agree 100%.

Virgil Kane
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

[quote="Editor"] How is Ron Paul's position on U.S. involvement in Iraq different than the Democrats?[/quote]

This question could be clarified. Are you asking about his position with respect to whether the US should have gone in militarily at all? Are you asking about his position as to whether there should have been a declaration of war, as required by the Const, as opposed to an "authoriziation of use of force"? Are you asking about his position on whether the US should remain in Iraq now? (Also, I don't think "the Democrats" have a single, collective position, so which Democrat are you asking he be compared to?)

As I understand Ron Paul's position on the invasion, he was opposed to it from the very beginning. He has not changed is position on this. I think most Ds are now taking the position that either they initially supported it because they were misled by Bush and Co. and they no longer do, or that they still support the decision to go in, but blame Bush and Co, for "mismanaging" the war.

Also, I know that Paul wanted the Congress to vote on a declaration of war rather than on a resolution to authorize presidential use of force. His position in this regard is based on the sound principles of separation of powers under our constitutional form of government, and I do not think a single Democrat has taken that same position.

With regard to whether the US should continue to keep troops in Iraq, only Paul unequivocally talks about bringing them back to the states. He is not for "redeployment". He is not for keeping "some" troop presence in Iraq. In this regard, his position does not resemble any of the D's position. He does not talk out of both sides of his mouth like all the other big government, estblishment candidates do. Even Hitlary, who campaigns on bringing the troops home [url=http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_david_sw_070612_sen__clinton_wan... that if she is elected she expects US soldiers to remain in Iraq for at least the next ten years.[/url]

I suppose it would be just as fair to ask: How is Ron Paul's position on U.S. involvement in Iraq [i]the same as[/i] the Democrats?

Michelle Anderson
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

[quote="Editor"]hatchcar -

I'll repeat a question I asked on another thread. How is Ron Paul's position on U.S. involvement in Iraq different than the Democrats?[/quote]

Dr. Paul's position is dictated by his non-interventionist priciples, which is entirely different from the Dems non-Bush mania.

I have to say that I am conflicted over the war in Iraq, though I have not articulated that inner conflict to many people.

I was all for the invasion originally, like many Americans. After the hubbub died down, however, I realized that this was a war which was not declared by Congress. (In that way, I suppose it is indeed like the Viet Nam war.)

Today, I'm afraid I believe that we have no business in Iraq.

However, I also realize that pulling out of Iraq is not an option. Nor is -- God forbid! -- scheduling a date for forsaking the war. I think we need to play the hand that we picked for ourselves, not the one we would have liked.

All of that being said, I must point out yet again that this man has, in all his years of being a doctor in the poorest part of Texas, never taken payment from Medicare or Medicaid. That, in and of itself, shows him to have been a principled man all along, which has me in his corner. For what THAT's worth.

Virgil Kane
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[quote="Michelle Anderson"] Today, I'm afraid I believe that we have no business in Iraq.

However, I also realize that pulling out of Iraq is not an option. [/quote]

What does this mean?

Frostman
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Maybe that we shouldn't have gone in the first place, though now that we've made a mess and knocked everything over, we can not just pull out wholesale, as the peace activists would like. Or something like that...?

I find these discussions regarding the Iraq War akin to all of us standing around a dieing man. The man is almost dead because an arrow sticking out of his chest. And we're all standing around debating whether or not to pull out the arrow (which, of course, would kill him). Somewhere along the lines of the debate, we forgot to ask why the arrow is there in the first place, who shot him, and why...

That said, Ron Paul is one of a very select few (R)s I could vote for. Please don’t put forth another neo-conartist.

LMD
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Well, for what it is worth, since Michelle mentioned principles...

I have to question this man's supposed pro-life principles when he has voted [i]against[/i]:
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/bio/keyvotes/?id=567&lvl=C]CIANA[/url] (Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act)
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/issues/votes/?votenum=97&chamber=H&congress=1... Custody Protection Act[/url]
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/issues/votes/?votenum=31&chamber=H&congress=1... Victims of Violence Act[/url]
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/issues/votes/?votenum=544&chamber=H&congress=... Relief Promotion Act[/url]

...and when he has voted [i]for[/i]:
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/issues/votes/?votenum=23&chamber=H&congress=1... Prescription Drug Price Negotiation Act[/url]
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/issues/votes/?votenum=669&chamber=H&congress=... Modernization Act[/url]

Sure, his current 'scorecard' from NRLC shows a rating of 80% voting 'pro-life' on legislation in the 110th congress.
However, a careful examination of the acts linked to above and his votes cast shows me he has principles consistent with any other [b]hack[/b] who's protecting his own in his given profession, in this case OB/GYNs.
And he votes as such.

Frostman
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[quote]...principles consistent with any other [b]hack[/b] who's protecting his own in his given profession...[/quote]
Surely, one could find an analogous comparison for a "principled" Big Oil supporter protecting his own. Or maybe a "principled" ex-CEO protecting the interests of his old friends by sliding them lucrative non-bid government contracts? Of course, they're not hacks, right?

Punk
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

I can appreciate RP's consistency with respect to Iraq. There is just one piece missing for me.

I would like to hear him at least describe how he would pull the troops, and perhaps have someone of military background, say, a General, validate the plan, or at least the reality or feasibility of doing so with the least harm to the troops.

We all know it's one thing to say "I will pull them all immediately", quite another to deal with the logistics and such.

I am not criticizing the position, I just want to hear a practical scenario to do so. It also carries a lot of weight with me if that plan includes shifting the (defense) resources domestically to enforce the borders.

bob emrich
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LMD,
Thanks for the information about RP voting record. Those are very serious matters and I will look at the links you posted.
I noticed that none of the supporters have addressed the matters yet, but I am sure they will. :)

LarryinAugusta
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

[quote="LMD"]Well, for what it is worth, since Michelle mentioned principles...

I have to question this man's supposed pro-life principles when he has voted [i]against[/i]:
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/bio/keyvotes/?id=567&lvl=C]CIANA[/url] (Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act)
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/issues/votes/?votenum=97&chamber=H&congress=1... Custody Protection Act[/url]
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/issues/votes/?votenum=31&chamber=H&congress=1... Victims of Violence Act[/url]
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/issues/votes/?votenum=544&chamber=H&congress=... Relief Promotion Act[/url]

...and when he has voted [i]for[/i]:
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/issues/votes/?votenum=23&chamber=H&congress=1... Prescription Drug Price Negotiation Act[/url]
--the [url=http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/issues/votes/?votenum=669&chamber=H&congress=... Modernization Act[/url]

Sure, his current 'scorecard' from NRLC shows a rating of 80% voting 'pro-life' on legislation in the 110th congress.
However, a careful examination of the acts linked to above and his votes cast shows me he has principles consistent with any other [b]hack[/b] who's protecting his own in his given profession, in this case OB/GYNs.
And he votes as such.[/quote]

LMD - Although Ron Paul is pro-Life he does not believe that the Constitution gives the Federal Government the power to set law in regard to abortion. He believes that this is a State issue. He did support the partial birth legislation a couple of years ago, but only did so because of existing abortion law.

One thing about Ron Paul, he is pretty consistent with his beliefs in the Constitution.

Virgil Kane
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

[quote="Frostman"]I find these discussions regarding the Iraq War akin to all of us standing around a dieing man.[/quote]

I thin it's akin to an older brother going to school to beat up the playground bully that humiliated his kid brother only to find out the kid he's beating up didn't really pick on his kid brother the way he first thought, but deciding to keep beating him up anyway.

Or, as R. Paul himself has said, the discussions regarding Iraq are akin to a doctor misdiagnosing cancer and then after realizing the misdiagnosis, refusing to stop the chemo treatment.

bob emrich
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[quote="LarryinAugusta"]Although Ron Paul is pro-Life he does not believe that the Constitution gives the Federal Government the power to set law in regard to abortion. He believes that this is a State issue. [/quote]

I believe that CIANA (Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act) was very clearly a federal issue.

oldfox
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Ron Paul vs. the New World Order

An intriguing article on Ron Paul...long, appears well researched and worth the read..IMO
[quote]I have to admit that when Rep. Ron Paul announced his candidacy for the Republican presidential nomination, I didn't raise much of an eyebrow, even though I am a longtime Paul watcher. After all, he's run before; his 1988 Libertarian Party candidacy attracted little attention because he ran mostly from the fringe, and his views haven't changed substantially over the years.

What I didn't expect was that his anti-war advocacy would attract as many evident admirers from the left as it seems to have, particularly those who are dissatisfied with Democrats' apparent fumbling of the Iraq war issue. Certainly, the message boards at liberal outlets like Crooks and Liars who've carried factual counterinformation about Paul have been flooded with raging defenses of the man, as have some of our comments threads.
[/quote]

[url=http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/06/ron-paul-vs-new-world-order.html]Full article here[/url]

LarryinAugusta
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[quote="bob emrich"][quote="LarryinAugusta"]Although Ron Paul is pro-Life he does not believe that the Constitution gives the Federal Government the power to set law in regard to abortion. He believes that this is a State issue. [/quote]

I believe that CIANA (Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act) was very clearly a federal issue.[/quote]

I disagree. If one state had a drinking age of 18 and another had a drinking age of 21 do you think someone should be able to cross the state line and drink? Paul is very consistent. He believes that the Constitution is clear in establishing abortion law as a states right and not a federal right. Keep in mind, we are not talking about trade here.

H.R. 1063 would amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit taking minors across State lines in circumvention of laws requiring the involvement of parents in abortion decisions.

hatchcar
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Thanks for posting the article OldFox. I'm sure this would have been brought up by people who aren't sure of what Dr. Paul stands for. This is good.
It seems the stage for the Presidential race is more focused on foreign affairs, then domestic affairs. However, I wish to state that Dr. Paul will explain his position on domestic issues in due time.
I hope everyone here knows the difference between the market and the state. There is a difference, I hope everyone will pause for a moment and realize this. He is 100% opposed to corporatism.
As far as him being a racist, I find it hard to believe since he was a OB/GYN who delivered over 4,000 babies of all races and creeds and ethnicity.
He also refused to accept Medicare as a form of payment, and offered discounted and free services to those who were unable to pay. He would charge richer patients more to make up the difference.

I do admit I'm concerned that he voted for the Medicare Price Negotiation bill, since indeed it's price controls. But that doesn't mean I'm going to end my support for him because of one vote I may not agree with. I'm sure he's voted for bill I'm opposed, and voted against bills I support. The whole idea is to decentralize power of DC and spread it thru out the country, so that a bill like this will be decided at a local level vs. the National level.

LarryinAugusta
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The racist issue has come up in a number of posts. Again, he did not write the article but accepted full responsibility for it at the time instead of throwing the person who wrote it under the tracks. Compare his actions against recent presidents that will not take responsibility for anything.

Paul is a breath of fresh air

LarryinAugusta
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

[quote="Michelle Anderson"][quote="Editor"]hatchcar -

I'll repeat a question I asked on another thread. How is Ron Paul's position on U.S. involvement in Iraq different than the Democrats?[/quote]

Dr. Paul's position is dictated by his non-interventionist priciples, which is entirely different from the Dems non-Bush mania.

I have to say that I am conflicted over the war in Iraq, though I have not articulated that inner conflict to many people.

I was all for the invasion originally, like many Americans. After the hubbub died down, however, I realized that this was a war which was not declared by Congress. (In that way, I suppose it is indeed like the Viet Nam war.)

Today, I'm afraid I believe that we have no business in Iraq.

However, I also realize that pulling out of Iraq is not an option. Nor is -- God forbid! -- scheduling a date for forsaking the war. I think we need to play the hand that we picked for ourselves, not the one we would have liked.

All of that being said, I must point out yet again that this man has, in all his years of being a doctor in the poorest part of Texas, never taken payment from Medicare or Medicaid. That, in and of itself, shows him to have been a principled man all along, which has me in his corner. For what THAT's worth.[/quote]

Michelle,

Thanks for your post, it was spot on.

Mike G
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[quote="bob emrich"]LMD,
Thanks for the information about RP voting record. Those are very serious matters and I will look at the links you posted.
I noticed that none of the supporters have addressed the matters yet, but I am sure they will. :)[/quote]

Good one LMD the thread is about Iraq and you sure were quick to change the subject weren't ya. What does your links have to do with hatchcars first post or Scott's followup question?

Here's a question for the fiasco supporters about Iraq, should we stay in there for 10 years or 20 years? Then could you tell us how you are going to pull out in ten years or even the twenty year plan

LMD
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Hey Mike G,
There are several Ron Paul threads going at once.
I chose this thread because Michelle Anderson brought up Paul's position on not accepting Medicare/Medicaid payments for his services provided as a physician (an OB/GYN).

It is as appropriate here on this thread as on any others, all of which have wandered off topic now and again.

Aside from that, Mike G., if you don't like it - pound sand.
Lot's of it.
Particularly Iraqi sand.
:P

Roger S
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[quote="LarryinAugusta"]The racist issue has come up in a number of posts. Again, he did not write the article but accepted full responsibility for it at the time instead of throwing the person who wrote it under the tracks. Compare his actions against recent presidents that will not take responsibility for anything.

Paul is a breath of fresh air[/quote]

He was passing off the writing of a lackey as his own. Not exactly the actions of a man of integrity.

LarryinAugusta
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[quote="Roger S"][quote="LarryinAugusta"]The racist issue has come up in a number of posts. Again, he did not write the article but accepted full responsibility for it at the time instead of throwing the person who wrote it under the tracks. Compare his actions against recent presidents that will not take responsibility for anything.

Paul is a breath of fresh air[/quote]

He was passing off the writing of a lackey as his own. Not exactly the actions of a man of integrity.[/quote]

It was a news letter. If you believe that this does not happen with all politicians you have no clue what is going on.

bob emrich
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[quote="Mike G"]Good one LMD the thread is about Iraq and you sure were quick to change the subject weren't ya. [/quote]

I didn't see it that way at all. The thread is about Ron Paul. For some, (me) it is helpful to have more information about candidates as we are trying to decide who to support. It is not likely that I will decide based only on a candidate's view about Iraq. In fact, it is not the top priority issue for me. Important, but not the most important.

Thanks, again, LMD.

Roger S
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[quote="LarryinAugusta"]It was a news letter. If you believe that this does not happen with all politicians you have no clue what is going on.[/quote]

I thought Ron Paul was different. A breath of fresh air. Are you saying his sh!t stinks just like the rest of them?

LarryinAugusta
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[quote="Roger S"][quote="LarryinAugusta"]It was a news letter. If you believe that this does not happen with all politicians you have no clue what is going on.[/quote]

I thought Ron Paul was different. A breath of fresh air. Are you saying his sh!t stinks just like the rest of them?[/quote]

No, his smells like the toilet at the Marriott while the others smell like the outhouse at Smokey’s Greatest Show.

LarryinAugusta
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Someone has posted a portion of the Ron Paul blog that CNN pulled down after rge last debates. Here is the link.

http://www.drawball.com/cnn-removed-this.html

Mike G
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Ron Paul vs the Retarded Democrats

LMD

I won't be pounding any Iraqi sand but you are more then willing to have our troops pound it and eat it on a daily basis.

So tell me after your 10 year plan of Iraq occupation, how are we going to pull out?

Or maybe the 20 year plan? You choose?

Will Iraq be a shining beacon of muslim democracy or will it continue to be a hellhole of ignorant towelheads like the palistinian situation?

How high will be the wall around Baghdad in 10 years? I'd go for the height of the Israeli's wall facing their palistinian neighbors. That will be our shining beacon in Iraq.

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