Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

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Dan Billings
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

There is a link to the statute on the prior page.

mediadog
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

I pay my taxes, you pay your taxes, why should this Brown character not pay his?

He seems to have quite a cheering section here.

Anonymous
Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

mediadog ~ I for one am opposed to the income tax ~ State or Federal and strongly support a national sales or flat tax.

charlie neville
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The income tax as it now exists...

in supremely unjust. Unjust in the sense it's un-understandable. If it could be codified in half a dozen type written pages and understandable by all I might view it differently.

It's not likely to change though. The IRS bureauracy could then be cut to 10% of what it is now. Accountants, CPA's, financial planners and tax law lawyers would throw a hissy fit because they'd become unnecessary.

A flat tax, or a national sales tax would simply beecome as unmanagable as the income tax code over time with the exclusions and exemptions which would be added.

Seems I read somewhere the current income tax law is 26,000 pages long. Why?

charlie

mediadog
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

Charlie: I think you're right about the "flat tax." Once the pols started playimg with it, it would no longer be flat.

JIMV
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

The idea is to raise enough money for the government to operate. The current system is a mess designed to pander, buy votes and employ as many bureaucrats as possible.

You know it, I know it and so does the man on the street. If that fellow figured there is a way to avoid the greed, they might use it so...

These folk had better pay up because the government WILL kill them to keep the money coming.

red1
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

[url]www.tax-freedom.com[/url] I'm wondering if any of it is true.

Robert
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

[quote="Dan Billings"]There is a link to the statute on the prior page.[/quote]

Have you read and understood the book?

mediadog
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

[quote="JIMV"]The idea is to raise enough money for the government to operate. The current system is a mess designed to pander, buy votes and employ as many bureaucrats as possible....
.[/quote]

If that's the case why haven't we been able to vote them out?

Dan Billings
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

[quote="Robert"]Have you read and understood the book?[/quote]

I'm not sure anyone really understands them. But I did take two tax courses in law school.

JIMV
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

[quote="mediadog"][quote="JIMV"]The idea is to raise enough money for the government to operate. The current system is a mess designed to pander, buy votes and employ as many bureaucrats as possible....
.[/quote]

If that's the case why haven't we been able to vote them out?[/quote]

Because they pander, employ, and bribe enough folk to remain in power. Why do folk in Maine vote dem? Same answer.

Henry Clay
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

The law is the law. We can't pick and choose which to obey and which not to. Both Dan and I pointed to the legality of the government's position. Change the law if you like but until then, pay your taxes.

JIMV
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

[quote="Henry Clay"]The law is the law. We can't pick and choose which to obey and which not to. Both Dan and I pointed to the legality of the government's position. Change the law if you like but until then, pay your taxes.[/quote]

Sure we can, and we do all the time. No one pays any attention to the speed laws. A good bit of our elected leadership considers the Constitutional optional, we are always ignoring laws we don't like and our leadership does not consider any law or restriction as binding.

No, the real issue concerns the nature of the law....while the government and our elected masters consider laws that effect them as simply broad guidance, any law that involves money for them, the government, has greater effect than Moses's tablets fresh from Mt Sinai.

If government ever allows anyone to ignore their laws on theiving the whole system might tumble so, they will use deadly force to insure all resistance is stamped out.

They had better pay of the government WILL kill them all.

Henry Clay
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

Bob Ney was just sentenced for not obeying the law. Even Congress has to.

Tom C
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I find it a little interesting, from what I read in the papers, it was Brown's [b]wife[/b] who made most of the money in the marriage. But she has not barricaded herself in with Brown.

Brown is not protesting taxes on money HE made - he is essentially protesting taxes on money his WIFE made.

He is objecting to Uncle taking his wife's money that he thinks he is entitled to.

landry
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

Dan Billings, could not find the law or (statute0 after a lot of reading. If you know what the statute is, why not print it so us unwashed can read it. If you do not know what it is, why not be man enough to admit it. Why will the IRS not show the law (statute) in a court of law. They have been asked for it many, many times. It is yet to be produced.
Bud

Henry Clay
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

I've posted the statute Bud. If you choose to violate the law, that's your business.

Tom C
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There is hereby imposed... a tax...

[b]US Code TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter B > PART I > § 61
§ 61. Gross income defined
(a) General definition [/b]

[quote]Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, [b]gross income [/b]means all income [b]from whatever source derived[/b], [/quote]

[b]
US Code TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter B > PART I > § 63
§ 63. Taxable income defined[/b]

[quote](a) In general Except as provided in subsection (b), for purposes of this subtitle, the term [b]“taxable income” means gross income minus the deductions allowed [/b] by this chapter (other than the standard deduction).
[/quote]

[b]US Code TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter A > PART I > §
§ 1. Tax imposed
(a) Married individuals filing joint returns and surviving spouses [/b]

[quote][b][size=18]There is hereby imposed [/size][/b]on the[b] taxable income [/b]of—
(1) every married individual (as defined in section 7703) who makes a single return jointly with his spouse
(2) every surviving spouse (as defined in section 2 (a)),
[b][size=18]a tax[/size][/b] determined in accordance with the following table:

[/quote]

Welp - there it is!

Ollie Ollie Ox in free!

Anonymous
Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

[size=18]Anti-tax advocates out in force
Couple's trial has attracted their notice [/size]

By Margot Sanger-Katz
Monitor staff

January 21. 2007

David Baker has read the entire internal revenue code. Twice. The Auburn, Mass., man, who drove to Concord several times to attend Ed and Elaine Brown's tax evasion trial, said that he's spent more than 1,000 hours poring over title 26 of the federal code, searching for the provision that requires him to pay taxes.

"You will not see a law making anyone liable for these taxes," he said last week in the federal courthouse.

[url=http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070121/REPOSI...

Naran
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

Whatever this man owes the government, my sincere hope is that this can end peacefully, for everyone concerned. I hope the Feds have learned a few things over the years, and they choose not to "make an example" of Mr. Brown.

It is only money.

Tom C
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

[quote="Paul Mattson"]
"You will not see a law making anyone liable for these taxes," he said last week in the federal courthouse.

[/quote]

He must have missed the parts I mentioned above.

charlie neville
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Actually Naran, it's about more than money...

If he and his wife don't have to pay income tax, why do you or I? I suppose if all the taxpayers adopted the same position, we'd win. But win what? A nation unable to support itself? Pay it's legitimate bills?

Guess I'll take a different tack and argue for an overhaul of the taxation system.

charlie

Naran
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I know all the arguments you put forth, Charlie, and I cannot disagree with your findings.

I still hope the Feds do not choose to exercise force and use violence to resolve this situation with Mr. Brown.

thejohnchapman
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxvi.html

Amendment XVI
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

As to State income tax, NH doesn't have any. If they did:

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

I don't really have to link you "show me the law" ostritches to the IRS, do I?

Oh, hell: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sup_01_26.html

No, I do not agree with our government as to how they spend the money. However, they have the LEGAL power to collect it. The MORONS and CHUCKLEHEADS who tell the "there's no law" lie deserve to get jailed.

JIMV
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

John, the state of the law really does not matter. What does is power. The government has it and the poor guy does not. He had best pay, and fast.

charlotte
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

Jim...I think that is a cop out....He needs to work within the system. I hate some of my taxes too...but I don't lock myself up in my house and refuse to pay...I get active.

JIMV
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

[quote="charlotte"]Jim...I think that is a cop out....He needs to work within the system. I hate some of my taxes too...but I don't lock myself up in my house and refuse to pay...I get active.[/quote]

I don't disagree. I figure income tax protests are simply stupid. I do not know nor care enough about the legal argument to produce an informed argument. What I do know is that the government WILL kill them all if it looks like they will not pay or that other folk will follow their lead.

Never, ever get between the government and your wallet in any serious or public way. The government will destroy you, if you are lucky.

The only way to fight taxes is to elect enough folk with brains to do the right thing, an almost hopeless idea in Maine. When those politicians do change the laws and everyone can reduce or avoid the tax, then one pays less.

I am most loudly advising any reader to pay as government is absolutely murderous in stealing our money in the face of opposition.

There are things that one can do with impunity, regardless of the law, if one is lucky or politically connected (have you ever heard of a beautiful person going to jail for a gun violation?) and then there are things that the government will not tolerate. Holding out on taxes is in the unforgivable realm.

cannibalism, mass murder, jay walking, even PC crimes can be forgiven but not paying taxes....Now we are talking serious crime.

Dennis
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

[quote="Naran"]I know all the arguments you put forth, Charlie, and I cannot disagree with your findings.

I still hope the Feds do not choose to exercise force and use violence to resolve this situation with Mr. Brown.[/quote]

I guess that this is applicable to the thread. I remember from a college sociology course [u][b]many[/b][/u] years ago the instructor saying that in order for any system of rules to work "naked force" must be present. While one would certainly want that force to be used prudently and appropriately once the guy has lost in court if he thumbs his nose at the decision he does so at his own peril IMHO. Looks to be like he is trying to become a "victim". I think the smart thing for the feds to do is keep an eye on him and nab him peacefully when he is looking the other way.

Henry Clay
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Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

Makes me wonder if he has paid his property taxes.

Anonymous
Tax evasion~New Hampster's Ruby Ridge

He claims he willingly pays all other taxes.

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